Water Tight Hatches

The place to discuss SCAMP (Small Craft Advisor Magazine Project), our 11' 11" micro minicruiser.

Moderator: Moderator

Brent65
Major Contributor
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:03 pm

Water Tight Hatches

Post by Brent65 »

What is the current thinking for the most secure water tight hatches available for a Scamp?

Brent
Brent Butikofer

Scamp: Hagoth
https://buildinghagoth.wordpress.com

Scamp: Shackleton
https://buildingshackelton.wordpress.com

Pocketship:
https://idahopocketship.wordpress.com

Never Stop Learning or Exploring
Brent65
Major Contributor
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:03 pm

Re: Water Tight Hatches

Post by Brent65 »

Has anyone used Armstrong hatches in their Scamp? The claim is they are water tight (tongue in check). Can anyone add to or subtract from that claim?

Brent
Brent Butikofer

Scamp: Hagoth
https://buildinghagoth.wordpress.com

Scamp: Shackleton
https://buildingshackelton.wordpress.com

Pocketship:
https://idahopocketship.wordpress.com

Never Stop Learning or Exploring
User avatar
Jason Builder
Regular Contributor
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:05 pm
Contact:

Re: Water Tight Hatches

Post by Jason Builder »

Hi Brent!

Great question. I have read that the thread-in plastic deckplates leak and that the big hinged hatches leak also. Having looked at them all and flexed them a bit, I believe that they will leak. I think it is important to not use any of these plates or hatches to hold back standing water from entering into an area that could fill with enough water to sink the boat. Ultimately I think that there may not be a good solution for a reasonable cost, easily openable, durable, stout, watertight hatch. Of course a securely fastened small hatch can be made watertight, but might have too many fasteners to be convenient. Someone should invent a watertight cheap big easy-to-open hatch, good luck. Maybe Armstrong has, I don't know....yet. I have purchased Armstrong hatches for my current SCAMP build, from their smallest up to the big 12" round hatch. After going back and forth I selected Armstrong based on what I could read on the interweb. They arrived this week and I will get them tested in the water when the boat is done in fall. IMPORTANTLY: I am glad I have not yet installed my hatch doublers, because the Armstrong internal compression beam does not distance itself from the hatch far enough to install it into a deck that is 3/4" thick (in my opinion). It will install well into a 3/8" thick deck. But if the deck itself flexes then I believe the seal will leak. The smaller diameter deck plate that I bought for the water ballast will work well I think. I am concerned about the large diameter deck plates, especially now seeing that I will need to skip my doublers....or make new thinner less strong doublers. The Armstrong deckplates look good and the seals look high quality. I like the design and though I will try to minimize deckplates , I plan to use Armstrong in the places that I do use deckplates. I will use rectangular bomar hatches in the vertical hatches in the veranda and if the boat gets knocked down I will accept some relatively minor water intrusion through those.

Photo of Armstrong deckplate being installed, with the compression beam at its most open position , in a piece of 3/8"
Plywood. Add another piece of 3/8" plywood and it could not be installed and removed.

As I have not installed any hatches or deckplates yet. Any insights are also appreciated.

Happy Sailing,
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-Jason

Builder of SCAMP#349 "Argo": Build log at http://www.argobuilder.com
Caretaker of these fine ships:
-SCAMP "Argo"
-1981 Compac 16 Pilothouse "Lillyanna"
-Old Towne 16' Canoe
Brent65
Major Contributor
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:03 pm

Re: Water Tight Hatches

Post by Brent65 »

Jason,

First off, thank you for the thorough response and insights. Very helpful! Also, I love your build blog. I'm enjoying following your progress and learning from your work. Very helpful!

I also like the Armstrong deckplates. They seem to offer the best chance for minimal water ingress. With regard to bulkhead #3 hatches, I would keep them as heigh and close to the mast as possible. This will minimize their exposure to water following a capsized. And, I'm not entirely convinced that they need to be big enough to crawl inside for repainting. The bigger they are, the increased chance for water intrusion.

For bulkhead #3 the options seem to be: Russell Brown hatches, Bomar or kayak snap on hatches. I would love to hear how the Russell Brown hatches are working out in capsize testing. Are they working out to be water tight? It seems like there was a gasket size issues.

Finally, does anyone have experience with the snap on kayak hatches, like those sold at Duckworks? How water tight and secure are these?
Brent Butikofer

Scamp: Hagoth
https://buildinghagoth.wordpress.com

Scamp: Shackleton
https://buildingshackelton.wordpress.com

Pocketship:
https://idahopocketship.wordpress.com

Never Stop Learning or Exploring
scamp14
Regular Contributor
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:37 am

Re: Water Tight Hatches

Post by scamp14 »

Hi Brent,
I've just ordered some Henderson watertight locker doors to use on the seat tops. I think the last place I want to lose buoyancy is the side tanks.
http://www.force4.co.uk/henderson-water ... KCp0hicZo4

Paul
Brent65
Major Contributor
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 1:03 pm

Re: Water Tight Hatches

Post by Brent65 »

Paul,

Thanks for the info. The Henderson looks very promising. Where are you planning to install these in the seats? I like the way they tighten down against the gasket. Do you know how far off the surface they protrude?
Brent Butikofer

Scamp: Hagoth
https://buildinghagoth.wordpress.com

Scamp: Shackleton
https://buildingshackelton.wordpress.com

Pocketship:
https://idahopocketship.wordpress.com

Never Stop Learning or Exploring
scamp14
Regular Contributor
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:37 am

Re: Water Tight Hatches

Post by scamp14 »

Hi Brent,
Hatches were delivered today. They are made by Whale. USA support: Tel +16168979241 Email info@whalepumps.com www.whalepumps.com
Height above surface is 28mm (1"and 1/8").
I intend to fit mine to the seat tops just aft of B5 and midway between B6 and B7.
Paul
Bchrovers
Regular Contributor
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:31 pm

Re: Water Tight Hatches

Post by Bchrovers »

Hi Brent,

I have the screw plate hatches installed in the floor. I have had times where water was standing on them a they did not leak, and others where they leaked a little. I actually think they perform pretty well when kept clean and a very thin amount of lubricant on the seal.

For the seats I made hatches based on what Graham Byrnes uses on the Core Sounds. What I like about them is they have drains which drain water off so that there is not standing water on the hatch. They are a bit of work to make, but I have been very happy with them.

Marty
ericleif
Major Contributor
Posts: 209
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:19 am

Re: Water Tight Hatches

Post by ericleif »

Hi Brent,

FWIW I decided to install home-made Russell Brown style vertical hatches on B3 and the rest (sole and seats) are all Armstrong.

I first ordered Tempress hatches. These are the ones used on the fiberglass Gig Harbor Scamps (B3). I think this is a great choice even though they leaked a little bit. Out of the box I closed and latched them, turned them upside down on the counter and filled the back with water. After minute or so, they started to leak a little tablespoon puddle.

Then ordered Jim Black hatches (they looked more watertight- bigger seal- even though they are only advertised as weathertight). Did the same test and the water flowed through the seal which simply didn’t seem to make contact with door. These would not be a good choice I think.

I sent both back and made my own Russell Brown style hatches on B3 (before B3 was installed) with stainless piano hinges, two delrin latch dogs each, “D” marine gaskets with adhesive back. Did the same test - 15 min later, not a drop leaked through. I realize real-world water pressure could be much greater, but I’m satisfied with them so far, even though they were time consuming to make.

Sole openings for the Armstrong hatches (6”, 8” and 10” round) all have extra 9mm doublers underneath from kit scrap and are all recessed flush with the top of the sole. The openings’ thickness are all 18mm and this seems to work fine with Armstrong hatches if you take the little metal retaining ring off the back, flip the plastic bar over and re-install - recommended by Armstrong.

Eric
User avatar
Jason Builder
Regular Contributor
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:05 pm
Contact:

Re: Water Tight Hatches

Post by Jason Builder »

Eric,

Thank you very much for the suggestion to flip the compression bar on Armstrong hatches so that the "horns" point away from the hatch, thereby increasing the thickness of a deck that these hatches can be used in. Photo below shows much improved clearance. I will now be able to install my doublers and utilize these hatches in the doubled thickness deck. Photo below shows the new configuration (note that the final thickness of the deck will be twice the thickness of the piece of plywood in the picture).

-Jason
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
-Jason

Builder of SCAMP#349 "Argo": Build log at http://www.argobuilder.com
Caretaker of these fine ships:
-SCAMP "Argo"
-1981 Compac 16 Pilothouse "Lillyanna"
-Old Towne 16' Canoe
Post Reply