Addendum for "plans only" people

[kenjamin]

It's great to be part of the multitude of folks building SCAMPs. It's going to be a wonderful boat for me when I'm finished and I have really enjoyed the accuracy of the plans. Having said that, after trying to help Fred4win through the scraffing process that "plans only" people must master, I'm wondering if it would be a good idea for Small Craft Advisor to provide an addendum for the plans only people. I am a fairly experienced builder and yet it still took me a while to figure out how long I wanted my finished scraffed together sheets to be and also I discovered that even after I had scraffed together my sheets, the nesting diagram provided in the plans did not apply because they included the puzzle cuts that I was unable to create.

It would take some work to come up with a bevel scraffing plan, information about bevel scraffing, and a nesting plan for the resultant sheets but if it were done with an experienced builder who was working with plans only and doing his or her own bevel scrafs anyway, that could be an easy way to come up with the additional information needed by the plans only people. I wasted quite a lot of ply trying to figure out the appropriate lengths for my nesting plan and wasn't very satisfied with the efficiency of my build so I'm pretty sure there are much more experienced builders out there who do a much better job of it than I would so I'm not exactly volunteering for the job myself, just thinking that it's something that would be very helpful and worth considering.

Plans only people need help with deciding how long the scraffed sheets need to be, the actual scraffing process itself and especially a nesting plan for the final scraffed together sheets. And, no, the nesting plan provided in the CNC plans is no help whatsoever for the plans only people. Try building from plans only and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

[AOM]

Here, here, Kenjamin...

My first post. Hi to everyone.

I am a moderately experienced builder. I am doing the prep to build #166 using plans only. I cut out to-scale templates, trying to nest them on both single 4x8 sheets (to-scale) and, alternatively, two 4x8 sheets with an 8:1 scarf (2.75"). So far, jockying the parts in their possible positions on many sheets, there is a bit too much waste material for such expensive ply. So, I am not doing any cutting yet.
I am going to keep at it (the nesting puzzle), but it would be great if JW, or the SCA crew, or an experienced ply builder could come up with a nesting diagram that included the 8:1 scarf for us plans-only builders.
As it is currently offered, the SCAMP is definitely heavily weighted in favour of the kit folks. No doubt one can build, given more time and more ply, from the plans, but why not make the plans only version--normally the basic version for which the kit is an also-available--"builder friendly" from the get-go?

This is one of the greatest all around sailboats I have ever seen, both aesthetically and functionally, and will be my "go-to" boat for everything. And, I really like the "open source" feel of this Forum.

Tony

[kenjamin]

Since I don't have the room to wrestle a 16' sheet of ply in my shop and no planks are that long anyway, I cut one sheet of my 4 mm stock sort of in half resulting in a 4' 6" piece and a 3' 6" piece and then spliced each of those onto standard 8' pieces. This yielded a 12' 4" sheet and a 11' 4" sheet which seemed to me at the time more less fairly efficient pieces to handle and cut from for the planks. Because I'm naturally lazy, I only plotted out only one plank when I could and used it as a template for the other matching plank. I do remember that one of the planks had to be plotted out twice though due to my nesting plan. If you do that, use one to make the other, you have to cut out the line on the second plank of the same size. I also clamped the matching planks together and hit their edge with my 4 & 1/2" grinder to make them exactly the same – still faster than plotting out each plank. On the bulkheads, I cut out one half of the inside area to use as a template for the other half of the inside area. This is a little risky because you have to be very careful in order to remove the same amount on the inside of both sides of the bulkhead – you don't get to use a grinder to make both sides exactly the same so it's even more important to cut out the line drawn from using the half area piece as a template.

Good luck with your build, Tony, and make sure you see the revised skeg thread to get the location of the seat longitudinal slots.

[Peter E]

My approach was just a little different. I took a eight foot sheet and cut it in half and then scraffed it to a eight foot sheet. As you know, then the plank is short by about eight inches. I then attached a short piece of scrap to the end of the piece.
Pete Hull 52

[Editors]

Hi All,

The short answer is that while we're proud of the plans and manual as they are, we'll certainly continue to add information that will assist the plans-only builder. We expect to get good feedback and suggestions from current and future plans-only builders.

We're doing our best to keep on top of suggestions, but the size and scope of the SCAMP project has far exceeded anything we'd imagined.

Thanks for the support.

—Eds

[fred4win]

Hey guys I thought I was the only one complaining. I am about half way through my cuts and I do most of the way Ken explained. I cut one and then use that as a pattern for the next piece.

I have run into a bigger problem now with the cockpit soles. They are not only longer than the 4x8 but are much wider also. So why am I complaining. On the nesting layout it is nested as one piece. I don't want to be a cry baby but I was really frustrated with trying to cut them out yesterday. Now that tells me I may need to buy 2 more sheets of ply cause of the inaccurate nesting. Now mind you that doesn't sounds like much, but where I live it is a all day job to travel to the big city to buy two more sheets of plywood. Are you listening Josh ?

Of course help will not come in time to help the builders working now from the plans . Maybe just maybe the feed back will help others. My problems, I will just have to deal with it. Having a few friends on this forum like Ken, and Peter E helps to soften the pain. It really does.

Hope I don't sound too opinionated but at my age I just say my mind.

[Phil]

I want to add my support to those calling for better plans support for non- kit builders. As I recall when I ordered the plans, we were assured that they would be usable for non-kit builders.
My reading of the Editors reply seems to indicate that asking these questions constitute a lack of support for the project, I don't think anything could be further from the truth.
When looking at the plans as a fairly experienced amateur builder my assumption was that I should regard the puzzle joints as scarf joints, and working on that basis turn out the proper length plank.
According to others experiences this interpretation appears to be flawed.

So I would ask the Editors what is the recommended procedure for producing planks of the proper length? Will I have to set up the bulkheads and then make up a pattern for each plank?

Respectfully submitted, Phil

[kenjamin]

Dear Editors,

I'm way past needing the addendum for myself but this SCAMP thing is only going to get bigger and bigger so it might be best to address the problem now. If an experienced builder like myself had problems figuring out efficient spliced sheet sizes and nesting plans then it must be a real bear for the beginner. For now you guys should at least give a warning that the current plans are oriented towards the kit builds and it will definitely take some head scratching if you hope to build from plans only. I don't remember seeing anything like that before I bought my plans.

Fred,

I believe you may have misnamed the part you're having problems with. The cockpit sole (floor of cockpit) is longer than 8' but definitely not wider than 4'. Did you mean the decks?

[Editors]

We've got John Welsford, Howard Rice and the SCAMP crew in town right now and we're working on an addendum. A few thing were picked up during the group build (kits) and some things apply only to plans builds. Please do send us any suggested additions, changes, or tricky spots and we'll get it sorted out. The scarfing question has been noted and will be addressed.

The nesting diagram in the manual reflects the way the kit pieces are cut, but obviously a scarfed scratch build will require a different layout. We'll address that shortly.

We don't see these constructive criticisms or suggestions as a lack of support—quite the contrary.

We'll try to get some answers up here shortly as well. Thanks for your patience.

—Josh

[fred4win]

The cockpit sole is longer than 8 foot ply. 2440mm is 8 foot. You will still need 256mm now to finish the length.We all agree on that. But the width comes out to 54.5 inches wide ( 1376 mm). that makes it almost 6.5 inches wider than the 4' ply.

The top sole layer is 25mm more narrower than the bottom ply. Now when you measure across from wing tip to tip again you get 1286mm (4' 2.5").

I was just mislead to believe after looking at the manual I could get buy with 8 sheets of 9mm 4x8s cause the nesting in the manual shows that it fits on one sheet. It does not and you will need extra ply to finish the cut. I am going to estimate 2 more sheets.

Ken
Check your plans and manual nesting to see if we are in agreement on this. Maybe I stand to be corrected.