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Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:20 am

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We're pleased to have partnered with Russell and Ashlyn Brown at PT Watercraft to offer their excellent watertight hatches as custom designed kits for Scamp.

During our our testing of Scamp #1—especially during capsize drills—we were disappointed to discover that all three types of aftermarket hatches used were prone to leaking. Designer Russell Brown, who crewed on some of the Scamp capsize drills with Howard Rice, had already been producing a watertight plywood hatch for his PT 11 Nesting Dinghy, and now they've done the custom CNC programing to tailor these hatches to Scamp.

Employing a rigid lid and coaming, a particular gasket, and custom Delrin turn-dogs, the PT Watercraft hatches are truly watertight.

At Howard Rice's suggestion, all of the boats recently built at Scamp Camp #2 boats will feature the custom hatches.

The kits include the machined high quality Okoume plywood parts, (coaming, stiffener and lid), gasket, turn-dogs, fasteners, kevlar tether, and manual.

SIZES:

The coamings and lid stiffeners are cut from 12mm plywood.

The lids are cut from 9mm plywood.

The Large hatch opening size; (Updated 11/11/2012)

9 1/4” x 15 1/2”. Lid size: 10 3/4” x 17”

The Small hatch opening size:

7 3/4” x 11 1/2”. Lid size: 9 1/4” x 13”


PRICES:

Large hatch: $79.00

Small hatch: $69.00

Call to order or for additional details.

800-979-1930 or smallcraftadvisor@earthlink.net


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Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:01 am

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Josh,

Hatch kits look great. Sit flush other than the dogs. Is there any other way to hold them down without the dogs protruding. Are the dogs thin enough and the deck thick enough that you could route out a cavity in the deck and hatch cover for the dogs to sit in. That way everything would sit flush. If I can figure out a way to have a flush surface I will likely use them for my seat hatches and the hatch opening in the sole between bulkheads 5 and 6. I assume they would be strong enough to stand on.

Cheers,

Dan



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Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:59 am

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Those hatches are extremely good value, its really difficult to get any of the commonly available plastic ones to do much more than slow the water down a bit, and not at all easy to build your own as an improvement.
I've seen the "Brown" hatches in use, and strongly recommend them.
Dan, those little delrin turn catches are not high enough to cause noticeable discomfort should you sit on them and yes they are plenty strong enough to stand on.

I am using standard plastic hatches on the one I"m building for a client, but have made a small change to the hatch opening that will improve things somewhat. I'll start a thread up on that.
John Welsford



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Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:09 am

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Dan.
I agree with Johns words below and have made the effort on your behalf to consult with the designer of the hatches. I will get an answer posted for you as soon as I hear from him.

As the hatches are configured now and with the 9ml seat ply and the 18ml thick double floor ply I think it possible but quite problematic to make the dogs flush. Not being the hatch expert I will wait for the designers reply.
howard

jwboatdesigns wrote:
Those hatches are extremely good value, its really difficult to get any of the commonly available plastic ones to do much more than slow the water down a bit, and not at all easy to build your own as an improvement.
I've seen the "Brown" hatches in use, and strongly recommend them.
Dan, those little delrin turn catches are not high enough to cause noticeable discomfort should you sit on them and yes they are plenty strong enough to stand on.

I am using standard plastic hatches on the one I"m building for a client, but have made a small change to the hatch opening that will improve things somewhat. I'll start a thread up on that.
John Welsford



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Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:49 pm

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Dan
Here is the answer I have received from Russell.
"
Hello Howard, Hello Dan,
I think what you are proposing is possible. Routing the recess would be done with the lid in place (before installing the gasket) and the recess would have to be wide enough to get your fingers on the turn dog. The question is why? The turn dogs are only 3/16" thick and the fastener is recessed. We have never noticed any discomfort sitting on them, with or without a cushion, and there's enough friction on the turn dogs that they don't often get opened by accident.
Yes, the hatches are strong enough to stand on. We have been standing and sitting on the PT Skiff hatches while going fast through chop. That's a pretty good test and the hatch coamings on the skiff are not as robust as on SCAMP."

Dan. I can also attest to the flushness of the turn dogs. I believe they are a bit of a non issue and quite effective as configured. Plastic hatches on the other hand are a bit odd to sit on unless you are sitting squarely on top of one. What I mean is you end up sort of sitting at an angle if half on one. If I was tempted to recess one of these hatches it would be on the cockpit sole only.

I hope this has been of some help.
howard



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Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:15 pm

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Bcbimmer wrote:
Josh,
Hatch kits look great. Sit flush other than the dogs. Is there any other way to hold them down without the dogs protruding. Are the dogs thin enough and the deck thick enough that you could route out a cavity in the deck and hatch cover for the dogs to sit in. That way everything would sit flush. If I can figure out a way to have a flush surface I will likely use them for my seat hatches and the hatch opening in the sole between bulkheads 5 and 6. I assume they would be strong enough to stand on.
Hi Dan,

Wooden kayak builders often fabricate completely flush hatches that are held down by internal bungees that slip over hooks on the inside of the covers. They are said to work well, but have at least one drawback: the bungees present an obstruction to full use of the storage space. I have also seen pictures of elaborate systems of bungee-powered cams on the inside of flush hatch covers. They avoid most of the obstruction issue, but are fiddly to build. Perhaps when I have time, I will find some links to post for you.

Cheers, Anders



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Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:37 pm

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Dan, here is a forum thread about the "moby latch" cam system. Note that the use of rare earth magnets is also mentioned as an additional option.

http://www.westcoastpaddler.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3517&start=100

Here is a link for the internal bungee system:

http://www.clcboats.com/shoptips/fitting_out/hatches_no_toggles.html



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Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:00 am

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Thanks for all the info. I am a bit of a clutz so was thinking about tripping over the dogs when moving around the cockpit. Worried about eventually breaking them off with constant kicking with the toes. I'll likely end up tangled in one of the many rigging lines long before that. Also a bit of an appearance issue. Perhaps that is why my build is going so slowly, always spending too much time thinking about the little stuff. After years of feeling that one little rock or twig under my pad while tenting, I also wondered about sleeping on the sole with the dogs protruding.
I had pondered the bungee closures and the rare earth magnets in the past when building my rowing shell and agree with Anders on the bungees. Redfish Kayaks in Port Townsend does amazing hatches and there are very good descriptions on their site and on builders sites on how they do their hatches with magnets. You would need a much wider lip on the hatches shown here to use magnets. I have tried the Redfish ones and they take a lot of pull to remove so work very well.
I think I'll go ahead and order some hatches and worry about the dogs when I get to that point. Good timing as I was just about to do the cut outs for the sole hatches. I wonder if the store will take back the plastic hatches I bought many months ago?

Cheers,

Dan



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Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:06 am

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Hi Dan
One thing to remember about SCAMP is that she at least to me a proper small boat meaning, not really a dinghy per se. I know that sounds a bit strange but from day one of test sailing her I had this feeling of stepping aboard a boat that felt larger, more stable and more substantial than the cruising dinghies I have been cruising for many years. I liked that feeling. She is the biggest 12 footer I have sailed to date.

Kayaks/sailing canoes (with which I am very familiar) are light weight craft by design and as such their hatches need not be so robust, the main function being to keep water out. Kayak builders strive as they should to find the fine line between lightness and strength as do all small boat designers but the design brief for a kayak is as you know quite different than for a small sailboat. Small sailboats like SCAMP will find sailors moving around, loading gear, stepping in and out, etc. Kayakers don't stand or sit on their hatches.

In closing SCAMP is a for lack of a better word a "Pocket Yacht", she has real large boat feel, function and toughness and as such deserves real sailboat hatches. The hatch kits recommended here are just that, robust and I feel very appropriate for SCAMP from a form/function perspective.

It would be great to see photos of your new boat at some point.
Best,
howard



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Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:36 am

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pocketyacht wrote:
Hi Dan
It would be great to see photos of your new boat at some point.
Best,
howard

Howard,

There are more pictures than you likely want to see under the topic "#70 an amateur build".

Cheers,

Dan



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