Southern Cross Update #6 “So this is how it ends”

by · March 2, 2017

Update: I received a phone call from Howard. It was good to hear his voice. He sounded utterly exhausted and, frankly, not entirely lucid. In short, he sounded like someone who had just survived a harrowing mental and physical ordeal.

He took me through the events of the previous several days while I scribbled notes. As I stated in my previous post, the description of events I detailed in that first post were based on information relayed to me through someone else (in fact it was third-hand information that also included some English-to-Spanish-to-English translation). So it didn’t surprise me to learn we’d gotten some of the story wrong, but what did surprise me was just how bad it had been for Howard and “Southern Cross”—far worse than the incomplete version I described in my last post.

I’d like to tell you the story verbatim, but as I say I was only scribbling notes and Howard was jumping around from event to event and struggling some to focus. I don’t know that I can do it justice, but I’ll tell you most of what I remember. Again, I’m sure there will be additional clarification once the fog lifts.

Kelp was a huge problem. Howard says the voyage became more dangerous after he got past the Strait of Magellan into the remote southern islands, largely because of the kelp. It might not sound like a big deal, but he spent days fighting to get through the kelp to safe anchorages—cutting it away with his knife, playing his centerboard and rudder to negotiate, and trying to set and raise anchors in it. It was both exhausting and dangerous. Howard was well-prepared for this voyage and had considered almost every contingency, but he says the constant, thick kelp beds were his biggest miscalculation. Imagine sailing in the most remote of places and arriving at what GPS and charts appear to suggest is a perfect anchorage only to find it utterly unusable, forcing you to push on regardless of weather or time of day.

He described being stuck out in horrible weather one day—getting blasted by williwaws—and unable to get to a proper anchorage for all of the kelp. Luckily he came across some sort of a big rope that was strung across from one point or outcropping to another. He said these things are found down there occasionally as passing boats supposedly tie-off to them, sometimes with their engines still running while they ride out williwaws and weather. Howard tied there but ended up stuck in that spot for several days as the wind never abated, frequently trying to knock Southern Cross down. As a result he lay on the cockpit sole in his drysuit, knife open at the ready, unable to set his boom tent, eat, or sleep.

He says eventually he realized he needed to move or he was likely to die there. The boat was close to a rocky shore and being tossed about viciously. Somehow he managed to sail off in conditions he says “you just don’t sail in,” and headed for what was to be his last ditch hope for a safe anchorage.

He’d by now conceded he might have to ditch the boat or run it onto a rocky shore if the anchorage didn’t pan out, so he prepared his series of ditch bags. I guess when he rounded the point near his potential harbor it proved to be another wind-strewn, kelp-clogged cove with rocks all around. But given the circumstances he felt he had little choice at this point but to try to push through the kelp for shore. Playing his mizzen and centerboard he made it some distance, and then he took to the oars, only to have an oar catch in the kelp, the boat spin around and rip the oar away, and nearly throw him into the water.

I’m a little unclear about the sequence of events from here, but I think he said he somehow came across another one of those communal mooring lines and was able to tie-off to it. Unfortunately the winds were only getting worse now and it was clear he was in trouble. It was about this time he first heard the screaming. Not a voice, or noise in the rigging, but a sound, he says, emanating entirely from some sort of a rotating wind phenomena he described as “cyclonic.” These visible wind formations were suddenly swirling wildly around him—dozens of them—lifting kelp off the beach and ripping rivers of white froth across the sea.

Important note: I mentioned in the previous post that Howard had endured 40+ knot winds. That was a gross error based on some confusion with the translation. What was mistakenly described to me as 83 kilometer-per-hour winds (44 knots) were in fact 83 mile-per-hour or 70-knot winds. These figures and many other details are apparently corroborated by the Chilean Navy’s report. In fact, winds were so bad during this day and night that the Chilean Navy had shut down all shipping traffic in the region.

Howard says he was mesmerized. Transfixed. He couldn’t believe his eyes. Soon after hearing the devil wind shrieking he was hit by one of these blasts. Moored on the rope with all sails down he was capsized immediately. He went to work righting the boat and was able to get her back on her feet and re-board, but he was hit again and Southern Cross was knocked over for a second time. Again he righted the boat and re-boarded.

Finally he was hit by a third blast and, in an instant, Southern Cross was completely upside down. He said there was no increasing heel or motion indicating what was about to happen—this time he just found himself suddenly underwater beneath the boat. He managed to swim out from under her and just as he was pulling himself up on the skeg to attempt another righting, another blast came through and tore him away from the boat.

He choked up a bit talking about this. I’ll leave it to him to tell, or not, what exactly went through his mind, but I remember he said he was thinking So this is how it ends.

Fortunately one of his ditch bags and a cockpit cushion washed past him and he was able to grab them. At this point he started swimming toward shore, using only his legs while he held on to the bag and cushion, not at all sure he’d make it. Somehow, after something like an hour and fifteen minutes in the frigid water he made it to the shallows and crawled ashore. (His drysuit was not, as previously reported, damaged, and it undoubtedly saved his life).

Eventually he was able to make contact with the navy who, fortuitously, happened to have a gunboat in the area. After barely surviving the night ashore, he was rescued. He was hypothermic (core temperature of 90º) his hands, feet, and muscles in bad shape, but he was alive.

There is obviously a lot more to tell, but we’ll wait for Howard to do that in his own voice. When we spoke, he was working with locals to find a fishing boat owner or someone else willing to take him back to retrieve “Southern Cross”, which he is almost certain is right where he left her. Contrary to the early reports, the boat never went on the rocks or was particularly damaged, she is, he says, likely still sitting on her side, tied-off where he last saw her. He says he can’t afford a formal salvage fee, so he’s trying to find someone who will help bring her back for less money.

Some of you have asked if there is anything you can do to help. Howard conceded recovering the boat might be prohibitively expensive. I told him we’d be willing to put up a PayPal donation button for him and transfer any funds received. He said he would appreciate our doing that and he would refund any money that doesn’t end up being required. If you’d like to pitch in to his “Southern Cross” recovery fund, you can do so at the bottom of this page.

For those of you wondering, Howard says he did have the waterproof cameras onboard recording (as part of the Below 40 South film project) during some of the extreme weather. He’s hopeful the memory cards and cameras can be retrieved when he gets back to the boat.

Stay tuned. More information as it becomes available. There is also an update posted at below40south.com/blog

—Josh Colvin

All funds donated here will be forwarded to Howard Rice directly. We are acting in good faith and are not responsible for what happens after these funds are forwarded on to Howard, how they are used, what may or may not be refunded, etc. Please do not donate if you’re not 100% comfortable sending funds without these specific details spelled out. Small Craft Advisor is simply helping to quickly facilitate the donation process.

Donation button removed. 3/5/17
Howard thanks you for the many generous donations.

aboard

Howard Rice (left) aboard Southern Cross during happier times. Photo Debra Colvin

***Additional update: Howard asked me to include the following:

“I have never in my sailing life called for assistance and would not have done so unless I felt my life was in jeopardy. I also wish to note that in doing so that no other person was put in harms way.

The Armada part; boat was not sent out to rescue me, it happened to be an hour away headed for Punta Arenas so the pick up was easy and non eventful. The Captain did the right thing and waited until conditions allowed their inflatable to come to shore in safety.

I understand the responsibility of sailing in the region as dangerous as it is having done it before. The conditions I encountered were extraordinary even for Tierra del Fuego. No boat or sailor could have survived intact that day with the cyclonic winds. I feel I had a very fulfilling and successful voyage down the Strait of Magellan and through some of the most stunning scenery I have ever seen. I consider my voyage a success, just wish I hadn’t run into the cyclones, a new experience.

Thanks Josh
Howard”

More news: Howard indicated he’s lined up a possible ride down to his boat and, to my surprise, he says he intends to resume sailing if the boat is reasonably intact. More soon. —Eds

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Discussion48 Comments

  1. Tim says:

    Thanks Josh

  2. Murray says:

    Scary stuff. Glad Howard managed to get himself to shore and the navy was able to retrieve him. 90 degree core temperature is serious stuff. Funds contributed…if he doesn’t use them to retrieve his boat I am fine with Howard spending anything left on lots of rum…he deserves it.

    • Howard says:

      Is this my pal Murray? Yes or no doest matter, Thank you for your words. If this is my pal Murray I really look forward to seeing you. Lets try to make it this summer. If this is a new friend Murray then I hope to meet you.
      Best,
      howard

  3. Christine Berven says:

    Thanks so much for the update. I have no doubt that if Howard had difficulties, it must have been horrendous conditions down there. Give him all our best!

  4. Paul Gilbert says:

    The unusually violent weather at this time of the year according to the Navy didn’t bode well in an area that is already extreme.My thoughts were magnified when Howard reported his fully laden scamp was blown out of the creek onto a shelf even before he set sail. Winds of that strength are an indication of the extreme forces he is dancing with. I do hope Southern Cross is recovered and the hard won footage can serve to illuminate the indescribable conditions he faced.Most importantly he is safe and the Chilean Navy are to be congratulated.That drysuit gifted him was clearly a lifesaver.

    • Howard says:

      Hi Paul
      There are really only two seasons here, summer (now) and winter. Both have their pluses and minuses. Winter ice and snow, no wind. Summer cold and windy. So summer it is. The cyclones are a truly remarkable event, rare, very rare. I have talked to three other people who have witnessed them one of whom survived them just as I did. I am going to film his description of what he experienced. An astounding almost mesmerizing event. The wind dies, seeks new directions, fills from the north at williwaw strengths and then goes crazy from all quadrants as cyclonic cones. It is the most sobering on water scene I have been in although this said I have been on water during a hurricane.
      That day I had zero intention of setting sail it was far too dangerous. I had already been fighting williwaws at anchor for almost three full days. I attempted the shortest of moves in a lull to get more anchors set and fouled an oar on kelp, spun and was gone. I did hoist sail to save myself but that didnt last long. I fought from 7:30am until the capsizes at about 6pm. Exhausting, truly exhausting. I was spent before I went in the water.

  5. mike Leech says:

    Thank you,gor tge update. Some how I don’t think we have heard the last of the voyage of the,Southern Cross.
    Can’t wait for the book!

    • Howard says:

      Hey Mike
      I am doing my best to get her back. I will not give up and am about to head south again. Not at full strength yet but I have to get her back if I can.
      Thanks Mike
      howard

  6. phil mccowin says:

    Looked the dragon in the eye, reached in and grabbed a tooth, made it to shore and is thinking of another round. I’m not a bit suprised!

    • Brent Butikofer says:

      I’m so glad Howard has a chance of rescuing his boat. I know he has his heart and soul into that vessel. An unusual man sailing an unusual boat.

      Our thoughts and prayers are with him.

    • Howard says:

      Gadget aka Phil
      Thanks man. So glad you were here with me in December. You have seen the water smoke.
      Gee after the hypothermia my elbow doesnt hurt a bit;-)
      Best to you Phil

      • phil mccowin says:

        Sounds like a truly once-in-a-lifetime event, even for you! Thank god for today’s tech provisioning. Best of luck with the recon. We are all thinking about you.

  7. Barry Sontren says:

    Gutts, that’s for sure! At the risk of being stoned to death- you aren’t going to be able to convince me his boat was suitable for a journey such as that. No way in the world- tonnage is needed.

    I’ll bet the Chilean newspapers are having a field day with this one!

  8. Sean Mulligan says:

    Love Phil’s description!

    Wow…

    Only Howard would consider regrouping and continuing on. Good for him!! Go Howard! Best wishes for a successful recovery of Southern Cross… I only wish I was still organizing the Pocket Cruiser Convention so I could have him come and tell his story!!! What a presentation that would be!

    • Howard says:

      Sean
      Thanks my friend. Your words buck up my courage.
      Man I still want to go flying with you and soon. I was blown off of my boat in a water cyclone event. Does that count as flying?;-)
      Best,
      howard

  9. John McInnis says:

    Donation done. Hope the retrieval succeeds. Expect Howard will continue to make his judgements as always based on his realistic assessment of what’s reasonable

    The best tales are told by survivors.

    • Howard says:

      The best tales are told by survivors.
      Well said John. I chose to survive and I did have to choose.
      Best,
      howard

    • Howard says:

      Bob.
      Not quite but hull of kevlar!
      Looking forward to our next cup of coffee together in PT.
      Best,
      howard

  10. Howard says:

    Thanks to those folks here who have expressed good wishes and opinions whether positive or negative.

    Here are a few facts and then I don’t have much else to say really as respectfully I do not feel I owe anyone an explanation about anything I am doing or have done in boats. No one need be in support of my voyage as I did not ever ask for support. Many of my friends found something of intrinsic value in my voyage and pitched in and I am so thankful for them and hope they feel great about their time and involvement. Thanks to each of you. My life is blessed by the greatest of folks!

    I did not voyage in an irresponsible manner. Respectfully I don’t care if people shoot at what I am doing or armchair with opinions, we are all entitled to them. There may be folks out there who might feel justified and fulfilled in their view of “I told you so, I knew this would be a disaster”, too bad for them and fine with me. This is not and has not been a disaster. A voyage cannot be judged by one day, it in my mind has to be seen as a whole. Is the climber on Everest who cannot summit a disaster? I don’t think so. I set no lofty objective or stated goal other than to explore into the southwest islands of Tierra del Fuego and this I have accomplished and am hoping to continue.

    I set out to accomplish nothing more than this. Most importantly I set out to live more fully, explore a little and to challenge my skills and in the process grow and learn. Through this learning I hoped to become a better sailor and I am now a better sailor. The day of days is now in my personal experience file and I find it to be highly valuable. Few people have experienced what I experienced and I can perhaps help others by what I have learned. For example I know I can help In Reach Delorme make a better device and plan to write to them.

    1. My voyage, my responsibility and in the end my joy and I mean I had and am having an astounding, wonderful and challenging experience. It is not by any means finished.

    2. Four days ago I was officially told a Chilean hydrographic study of the region has shown between a 40% and 60% increase in kelp in the past 20 years. I have sailed safely and without incidence through the region and rounded Cape Horn in a far more fragile boat and in the process understood the kelp. I have sailed in kelp in many places but here, this time I realized I had my hands full once I exited the Strait of Magellan.
    I made my plans based on what I knew of the region and I just didn’t know there was such an increase in kelp beds, never occurred to me that there would be. Is this an oversight? Of course but I figured my way through it as best I could. The Armada and the local fishing fleet have serious challenges with the kelp outgrowth. It is speculated that the out growth may be due to ocean warming, who knows.

    3. Small does not necessarily equate with being unseaworthy. I was able to access areas and anchorages no larger boat could have ever seen. The feeling of sailing a small wooden boat of my hand down the Strait of Magellan and through Tierra del Fuego was and is astoundingly satisfying. I loved every minute of it (well almost;-)

    4. Cyclonic wins events are very very rare here but they occur. The fisherman who I will be departing with today to retrieve my boat owns a small sailboat in Pt Williams and he has also experienced the cyclonic winds once. His boat barely made it and it is a small keel boat. I equate what happened to me as being similar to a well prepared, fit mountain climber who gets hit by an avalanche. It happens.

    5. I was well equipped, lived large aboard my small boat, ate well, read good books as I patiently waited for weather windows, which was the strategy I employed.

    6. No one here is angry at me, there have been two newspaper stories, both positive.

    7. Calling for help is a first for me but I had no choice after being blown off of my boat by a cyclone during the righting process. I was well prepared to survive and I did. I was in the water for a long time and my Ocean Rodeo dry suit was the right tool. When it was time to call for help I did not hesitate.

    7. No one was put in danger coming to get me. The patrol boat was by chance an hour away heading my way and for Punta Arenas and had ended up hiding out (actually circle motoring) from the same cyclonic winds. The captain informed me they clocked sustained 72 knot winds and they witnessed the cyclones I witnessed. If I had been anchored in a larger boat I wonder if I would have made it at all. Juan my friend at Nao Victoria who grew up on the shore of the Strait of Magellan told me these cyclonic winds have actually crushed big fishing boats. Large sail and power boats are lost here all the time, there were two in December and another at the same time as my situation.

    8. I met and exceeded every Armada safety requirement and was told I was better equipped than many of the yachts they inspect in the zarpe process. They turn down many, I was not turned down.

    9. Why would I sail in such a place in a small boat? Because I wanted to. I knew the risks going in and I prepared for them but admittedly did not know of the kelp out growth.

    10. I do not have to answer to anyone but myself as I did not engage in pre voyage sponsorship. As I stated my idea, my voyage, my responsibility.

    11. I try to live my life fully and hope to never face the day when I am old looking back and regretting I did not live or take a few chances in life. I am simply living out my vision.

    12. I am happy now, whether I have my boat or not. I was happy beyond words during the voyage in spite of the challenges. I was prepared to lose my boat, any sailor should be regardless of the size or type of boat. Boats are just things and things don’t matter.

    In closing.
    I am fulfilling a personal vision. There are people in this precious life we are given who dream but never do. I hope they are happy. I see the world this way. There are millions of people where 1+1 simply has to equal 2 and we need them to keep everything running.

    There are far fewer people for whom 1+1=3 or more (innovators, adventurers, artists, thinkers, folks with crazy ideas (crazy until they work). I linger on the edges of 1+1=3, in fact I aspire to be in this group in much that I do. I admire those in both groups but for sure those who try, who innovate, who take chances, who define their lives and go after their dreams, who fulfill their personal visions and personal inner life legends.

    I had a dream, I built a 12 foot boat, I shipped it to Patagonia, I successfully sailed the Strait of Magellan, I explored a big chunk of the islands of Tierra del Fuego, I faced down a day of days and I am so glad to have the opportunity to do this. I have seen things that are so beautiful they almost brought tears to my eyes.

    I am alive because I saved my life. The Armada did not save my life. I saved myself by being prepared and by persevering in the hour and a half I was in the water. I could have survived alone on Georgiana with my ditch bag and capsized boat nearby but thought given my condition I should call for help while I could because to have waited until I was perhaps in worse condition would have complicated everything and perhaps put others in danger. The Armada personnel who came to shore to pick me up were never in danger. It was a non event of sorts. I walked with assistance to their small boat. I thought I may have been able to wait out the weather and somehow get to my boat, the food, beach and right her and and and but in the end I made the right decision. I was obligated as all yachts are who sail Chilean waters to report in each day and give detail of my situation. I believe if I had persevered on and informed the Armada of my situation and wish so solider on they would have come any way. They are admirable as a navy and take no chances with life.

    I am far from done and now that I am feeling better am eagerly looking forward to todays departure south again and what the next weeks bring.

    I write these words with the greatest respect for all reading here.

    I am deeply touched by Small Craft Advisors assistance offer and to my friends who have donated to the Southern Cross recovery fund. I am hopeful I will not need one penny of it. I will keep everyone posted on the progress of getting her back afloat.

    Thank you my Friends
    howard

    • liz says:

      Howard, we are following your adventure from the UK and you inspire me. There is a strength there that few of us will experience except by reading about it. Thank you for sharing your adventures. Best wishes.

      • Howard says:

        Thank you Liz.
        I hope we meet some day.
        howard

      • Howard says:

        You are welcome Liz.
        I usually sail quietly but have enjoyed sharing my sail. Most importantly I have been phoning into elementary school classrooms and interacting and inspiring kids. Thoroughly enjoy this as it gives richness and meaning to my voyage.
        Best,
        howard

  11. Lon says:

    I have been fascinated by Southern Cross’s adventure and wish Howard all the best. The kelp is increasing in the colder climes as reported in Chilean waters but it is decreasing where I live in Tasmania at an alarming rate.
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-21/tasmanian-kelp-forests-dying-as-water-warms-dive-operator-says/8289300

    • Howard says:

      Hi Lon
      Yes the kelp was and is something formidable. I have struggled mightily with it and when I pen my story or in the film Dave Nichols and John Welsford are making the viewer will see first hand how something as apparently innocuous as kelp became the nightmare.
      Best,
      howard

  12. Paul Doody says:

    You are an inspiration to all, Hopefully you manage to retrieve Southern Cross and can resume your adventure. I have made a small donation and wish you well with it.
    Paul Doody. Yacht. Noble Warrior

    • Howard says:

      Hi Paul
      Doing my best here and Thank you for your donation. I have no words to express the proper thanks to my fiends like you. I hope we meet.
      I like the name of your boat too!
      Best,
      howard
      Shoving off at 5am again for the southwest islands to attempt the rescue. It will be a real challenge.

  13. Rich Harman says:

    “Those who say it can’t be done are usually interrupted by others doing it.”
    – James Baldwin

    Best of luck in retrieving your boat, can’t wait to see the video!

    • Howard says:

      Hey Rich.
      I look forward to the video too. I am all thumbs with a camera and have been saved by the beauty I have sailed through.
      Thanks for your kind words.
      Best,
      howard

  14. John Haugen says:

    You are correct Howard. You don’t have to answer to anybody. This is, and always
    has been a personal voyage. I appreciate you including the public in your journey.
    Hope you recover Southern Cross and continue on with your trip, if you choose too.

  15. Heidi Baxter says:

    Thanks for the story Josh and so glad Howard made it through okay. I can imagine Howard dragging himself ashore on that turbulent day, and the relief of being ashore, after capsizing. On land I am always seeking the sea. At sea I am seeking the shore. Small boats can weave amongst the kelp and explore the abundant life of the shoreline. But much easier with less wind and less kelp.

    • Howard says:

      Hello Heidi.
      I have to say the in water experience was something. My thought was as I being blown away from my little home was “So this is how I died, this is how it happened. I wasn’t panicked, I felt serene and knew I had to focus instantly and be at peace. To thrash and struggle would have wasted precious body heat. I am a swimmer, always have been and yet could only use my legs as I refused to release my ditch bag and the one seat cushion I grabbed. I now see the world with new eyes.
      Thank you,
      howard

  16. Pehr Jansson says:

    “Most importantly I set out to live more fully, explore a little and to challenge my skills and in the process grow and learn. Through this learning, I hoped to become a better sailor and I am now a better sailor. ” – Howard Rice

    BRAVO on a well-executed journey and a well-written account. You are truly an inspiration.

  17. Captain Kirk says:

    Thank you for sharing and glad you are ok.

  18. Ric Holl says:

    Howard I’ve been following your journey, and I knew from the start it may end like this, but I had a lot of things crossed. We navigated those very same waters as we pushed for Cape Horn, however I had the strength of a 65′ Swan. It was always a must to have an anchorage before dark and with multiple anchors set and with 2, 4, 6 lines ashore we would ride out the 100 mph winds that raced down the mountain faces with the scars left by every tree in their path snapped off a few feet above the ground. I know what you were going thru and shudder at the thought. That’s how we survived, by reading the wind scars and anchoring in between. In the night you would here them coming like freight trains to then feel them race by.
    I hope your little ship is intact and you can at least sail on. “Good Luck!”

  19. Howard says:

    Hi Lon
    Yes the kelp was and is something formidable. I have struggled mightily with it and when I pen my story or in the film Dave Nichols and John Welsford are making the viewer will see first hand how something as apparently innocuous as kelp became the nightmare.
    Best,
    howard

  20. Bud says:

    I’ve followed since the beginning. No one was more prepared physically and mentally and not small boat was ever more prepared for the adventure.

    Good for you. Sitting comfortable in my living room, I’m unable to even imagine the reality of the conditions.

    Good luck in your search and rescue of Southern Cross.

  21. Jerry McIntire says:

    Howard, I am glad to hear you called for help, got warm again, and are headed back for Southern Cross. By now you may have retrieved her. Either way, you are free to sail another day and that is good news. I look forward to meeting and sailing with you in Michigan (my old home), or at our new home in Rhode Island. My prayers are with you.

  22. Timo says:

    Howard, It’s admirable that you lived your big dream true. Now you have many unique experiences to share. I’m glad you are safe and getting better and hope you succeed to retrieve Southern Cross safely. All the best, Timo

  23. Mike says:

    Good to see you are ok, Howard. What an adventure you are having! Like the Scamp, you are as tough as Old Boots! Stick with it! I am confident you shall get Southern Cross back on the water!

  24. howard rice says:

    Southern Cross has been rescued. Just concluded and it was something I will never forget. Difficult, dangerous and done! She spent a week on her side at anchor being pounded by weather only this part of the world can deliver and she is in excellent shape.
    howard

  25. […] Small Craft Advisor (SCA) magazine has heard from Howard!  He is safe and recuperating. […]

  26. Clemens Wergin says:

    Howard, you are an inspiration and a very brave man. I am glad you were able to rescue Southern Cross and glad to have been able to chip in a little support. You don’t have to answer to anybody and I am happy that people like you still exist in this world of conformity

  27. John McInnis says:

    Howard, I’m hoping you’ve had a chance to fully recover. Your skill set and physical capacity were never in doubt, but are still amazing. Your successful recovery of SOUTHERN CROSS after the beating you’ld already taken is, I’m sure, most gratifying. Reckon Davy Jones won’t be seein’ you anytime soon.

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